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how to address overhealing
applegoddess wrote in wow_ladies
There are two healers I play with - holy priest and mistweaver monk - in my guild's 25s that are doing a massive amount of overhealing. If I look at overhealing only, it's basically everyone else does more or less the same amount and then it skyrockets to those two, like 25% 30% 30% 35% ....50% 55%... Normally I wouldn't care about overhealing, but the priest goes OOM a lot and the monk is often low on healing done overall. As a group we're doing enough that healing is rarely an issue, but it'd be nice to resolve issues while we're twiddling our thumbs for DPS to play catchup.

I've raided with this group for a while now and none of the healers in raid are particularly inclined to snipe heal most nights. We also don't run with multiple hpriests or mistweavers so I can't immediately compare, but if I ever see similar healers in the second half of MV in LFR I never see them doing that much overhealing either, it's always in the neighborhood of 10-40% depending on other healers.

Breakdown of heals, buff/debuff uptimes seem okay, and no particular heal of theirs is doing a lot of overhealing. Is there anything else I can look at to figure out what is going on with those two? I don't think this is just an inevitability of their spec.

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The Holy Mastery applies a HoT, and Mistweavers DPS to heal everything in a certain radius, so it could be those things. Did you check the overheal to see which spells were doing the most overhealing?

So the mastery HoT only does like 20-30% overhealing, and her top heal (and top reason for overhealing) is Cascade. I get that Cascade can do a lot of overhealing, but it all seems that 50%+ is excessive.

Same thing with the monk - his fistweaving is less than 5% of his overall healing, so not a big deal. It's his AoE HoT that does a lot of overhealing (and also a third of his healing done).

In both cases, they're competing with other hots from other healers and I cannot imagine why, say, other heals like Prayer of Mending or two shamans' Riptide or a druid with almost nothing but HoTs don't overheal anywhere near as much. I'm kind of guessing that maybe they're just timing their heals badly, which would be nice to know so we don't have healers running oom in the middle of a fight.

Cascade cannot be directed. If they're like me, I'd honestly just cast it on cooldown, like PoM, and since it doesn't hit the same target twice, and 25 is a lot of targets, it may just be bad luck.

You can't really stop Spinning Crane Kick effectively, so it's possible they start to spin to heal, people are healed up and then you've got overhealing.

Yeah, sadly this isn't a once in a while thing which is fine, this is every single raid. Cascade is only her top heal and while I can understand that overhealing if she casts it on cooldown, I've seen other bad numbers - just as high for PoH or even one Elegon attempt I saw Divine Hymn at 80% overhealing. :/ She doesn't have much of a problem in terms of lag or computer specs (her partner is GM/main tank), I'm just guessing she's maybe just slower than the other healers to cast a heal.

Spinning Crane Kick doesn't make up much of his healing either and that's low on overheals, it's mostly Renewing Mist ticking for tons on a bunch of people and Uplift on those targets also overhealing. No idea if this was an attempt at preemptive healing or not but his other heals are balancing out Renewing Mist to average it out to ~50% overhealing.

Your monk might be popping uplift whenever he's close to capping chi, since using chi builds stacks of mana tea - main monk mana regen ability. My monk is still <90 so I'm not exactly an expert, but I do pop chi-using heals when I don't HAVE to sometimes, just to burn chi and generate mana tea stacks. Using uplift at all would be pointless without having renewing mist on as many targets as possible, so that may be why those two spells are his biggest overheals.

If your holy priest is having 80% OH with DH then they have an issue with cooldown timing. Knowing when to use that cooldown will resolve that issue. If you have cooldowns assigned and she's using it at the right time, then her assignment might need to be changed. With the recent hot fixed buffs to PoH it is one of the most common heals you'll see for a holy priest. Of course that change is more effective in a 10 man situation than a 25 man one, depending on group setup. If she's not able to reach everyone in her group, PoH isn't really useful.

Since she's going OOM a lot too, she's not using her spells wisely and she's not using her mana return cooldowns well either. Chances are, she's trying to do the Cata ABC (Always Be Casting) method of healing, which doesn't work with the talent changes and fixed mana pools in MoP.

Ehh, she's actually the heal lead. And she's not going to change assignments much (she's _obsessed_ with group healing to an unhealthy extent), but on most fights ranged/melee will be stacked to some degree and she shouldn't have too much of a problem with PoH. I mean, I was 6/8H on my raid healing disc priest in DS and I know how much PoH spam can overheal. I just didn't know if that's just how it is now or she's really just doing it when its unnecessary... I may suggest to her to just toss renew/heal/wait for her ground AoE to heal or just not bother topping people off when they're just shy of 100%.

I'm kind of a big fan of always casting on my shaman, only cause if I'm not casting a heal then I can cast LB for mana regen and it helps to keep uptimes from procs up too. But you definitely can't be spamming expensive heals this way :(

Group healing is fine, as long as she's able to hit her group. It's more about mana management. It's one thing if you're specc'd into TC on your shaman and you're using that during downtime to regain mana. If she's not specced into PW:Solace and using that in the same manner, then she should be casting all the time. Since most fights don't leave a lot of room for free casts at current gear levels, Mindbender is a better option than Solace for mana return.

If the concern is mana, then it's a matter of watching mana cooldowns, making sure Mindbender is used at about 75% mana then on cooldown after that. It's a 1min cooldown, so it should be up a lot. If she's already doing that and is taking Divine Insight for her level 75 talent, she might want to try Power Infusion for the extra haste and the reduced mana cost.

Triage is still the thing to be doing. There are certain times in some fights (ultimate abilities from the stone guardians if they aren't the one petrifying, volley/resonance on feng, explosions and burn phase on elegon, etc) when you have to have people topped off, but otherwise it's fine if they're a bit on the low side. Holy isn't in that great of a place in general right now (even with the recent buffs), but it's better than disc, which is sad because I love disc. I had an 8/8H disc priest, resto shaman and hunter in DS. :)

I'd direct her to Noxxic ( They have all sorts of information about haste break points, when to glyph renew and when not to, what the AoE healing rotation should be, etc.

My Cascade also overheals by a shit ton, I kind of don't know why because I don't actually use it on CD but wait for the right time (I am disc though). But it still tends to do a lot of my healing so I figure I'm using it correctly. Also even though it's a smart heal it hits pets and those temporary pets or whatever from trinkets, according to some people complaining on the forums it even seems to prefer hitting these things.

As for PoH, Blizzard buffed it due to complaints. It's worthwhile to use if two people in a party need healing. That can result in 60% overhealing and yet it's the best spell to use in that situation. As for other healers not being inclined to snipe heals, every other healer's AoE is a smart heal while PoH is still party only. People are going to snipe (it's not so bad as disc because of absorbs).

Divine Hymn probably shouldn't be overhealing by that much. He/She could probably time it better.

Also, I'm not a healer that particularly cares about overhealing. I only look at overheals out of curiosity. I do care about healing done though. If your priest is keeping up I don't see the problem. Having mana problems is par for the course at this point in this expansion. I don't play a Monk so I don't really understand their mechanics right now. If other people are to believed they're kind of on top right now, while priests are on the bottom (though I can match our Paladin in output). As already mentioned when overheal is high but output is low I tend to think someone isn't really needed. Or they're too slow.

So I am not usually someone who cares about overhealing at all, unless it might be a potential problem. In this case it's that we're generally able to heal to boss enrages but she's OOM a lot and is often calling out other mana cooldowns (hymn, innervate) based on her or one of the tank healer's mana remaining rather than what's going on with a better healer in raid. I feel like since we'll eventually be pushing difficult content, we have to improve on little things like these when we have the time to do so (like right now). Plus, our raid's DPS is pretty low overall due to lack of gear, so we could even consider running a healer short so we get in that much more damage if we improve overall. During the end of Cata it was the reverse - the lack of caring and effort put out by many healers meant we had to run 8x healers for heroic Spine when 6 good ones and a tighter rotation of cooldowns could have done it. I don't think anyone in guild wants that to happen again.

I think the monk I mentioned is probably just tired/slow and we all have those nights, I just don't know how the priest does so much overhealing when she didn't used to during cata (and it's not just PoH, which as a raid healing disc priest in heroic DS I'm well aware of how much it overheals XD ). Most of it can be chalked up to Cascade, but that's a smart AoE too..wondering if maybe she's using it a little too delayed to see the fullest benefit from it. She also goes up and down on the charts, both with basically at least half her heals overhealing.

It's just one of those things where I'm thinking that it's great for her to push out the numbers she sometimes does, but she won't be prepared for shit going wrong like other healers doing just as much healing with a lot more mana available.

If the monk is low on overall healing, could it be a lag issue, either in their raid frames or their computer?

Good question. I just threw him into the question because I don't know what monk healing looks like at the moment (and my monk is still not geared to raid). He can be really good some days and not others, and I just chalk it up to stuff going on in his life - he was like this on his toon before pandaria too, just not with the overheals.

I checked logs from last week, and our Monk healers tend to have a lot of overhealing when it comes to their "affects X number of nearby players" spells, which I guess is most of their AoE. Spinning Crane Kick, Chi Burst, and Uplift are three examples of several 50%+ overhealing spells one Monk in particular used. My first thought whenever a healer's output is low, while their overhealing is high, leads me to think there's too many healers in the group for that encounter.

Yeah, his most overhealing heals are Renewing Mist+Uplift followed by Soothing Mist, which is not crazy when you think about it. I'm just not sure why those two particular AoE spells seem to do a ton of overhealing where Spinning Crane Kick/Chi Burst etc. don't, and neither do other healers' AoEs with a HoT component (say, my Healing Rain on CD).

It's good to know that he's not out of the ordinary though... I wasn't terribly concerned with him as much as I was with our priest that is visibly going OOM from overhealing.

And I'd probably consider that about raids if everyone was overhealing a lot, but nobody else is, and there's no shortage of things to heal (currently on Elegon) and people are going OOM as a result of other healers being OOM from doing stuff like that, sooo...

Elegon is a really tough fight, our healers struggled with mana even with everyone healing as efficiently as they could. It's really one of those cases where DPS have to be on the ball about making sure they're dropping their stacks when the adds are about to blow up, and its equally important that people are using their healthstones/personal cooldowns to mitigate damage as much as possible. The burn in P3 is brutal - I'm not kidding you, the boss was casting his enrage one-shot ability when he died, and only one person in the raid was alive long enough for dots to finish him off. For your amusement, I even havescreenshot proof. I like the fight a lot, it's interesting but my lord I was about to start pulling out hair working on him. XD

P3 is why I'm concerned about her mana. Every single time we have dumb mistakes, too many random deaths (usually stacks or adds, for which we use some cooldowns), or our overall DPS is so low we hit enrage (we've had people doing 50k..). We haven't seen more than maybe 30 seconds of P3 yet ><

The idea that she's overhealing that much and blowing all her mana before we even get to the super healing intensive part of the fight makes me wonder how she plans on keeping up during that phase and is why I'm asking for ideas :)

IMO I would not even touch the topic of over-healing. I would approach them with something along the lines of "We need you to manage your mana / energy more effectively, it causes extra stress on the other healers / raid members when if people are consistently running low on mid fight"... or a more positive approach "We've noticed you are having trouble with your mana, what can we do to help you conserve it better".

I think if you resolve the mana issues then the over-healing issues would either go away on their own or because a non-issue since it's no longer have adetrimentall effect.

Well she's the heal lead, but she's open to suggestions most days...

I totally agree. I don't care about overhealing, but here it's detrimental because she's got no mana (specifically I'm thinking of Elegon attempts before P3). Solving one or the other IMO will make it all resolve - overhealing but mana? great, mana but no overheals? great. It's just an idea for her to look at overhealing so maybe she'll conserve more mana for later in the fight.

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