Spelter & Tin ([info]pewter) wrote in [info]wow_ladies,

I don't see your problem: Sexism, Warcraft and Geekery

Cross posted from mentalshaman.com
(Checked in with [info]nerglish  before I posted <3)
Also wasn't sure what to tag this...

Please note that there are some mild cataclysm spoilers that discuss sylvanas and the goblin jokes (although not in detail).

When I log in to WoW, I don't get discriminated against because I am a woman. My opinions are valued by my fellow officers and guild members (and a wider community of people on my realm.) This blog is my voice, and I have power over the comments. I am surrounded by intelligent, clever, eloquent people in the communities I have chosen to interact with. I have been educated by their words, by their examples. If I want I can exist in an online bubble and chose to believe that this way of thinking is mainstream.

And then I poke my head out of my friendly little bubble, and the magnitude of crap out there makes me wibble and want to hide away again. It's not FUN calling out your friends on ableist/sexist/racist bullshit, especially when they held your hands through multiple dramas at University, and still persist in wanting to hang out with you after you've spent a morning-after dry-heaving into a toilet.

It's not just about a statue

Not long ago there was some minor kerfuffle over the lack of a female character in the 'Victory' statue. A lot of people (not just men) dismissed this as being over-sensitive and a bit pointless. What makes me upset about relatively small things like this is not the individual lack, but the overall picture. Even the bitch jokes and dialogue, although they seem isolated, make up a much bigger picture that is produced by a development team that is predominatly white and male. Many women in the geek industries will adopt the mainstream geek culture in order to fit in - just as in mainstream society we accept that showing cellulite is inappropriate, and that women should wear bras because otherwise men might be distracted by nipples.

So let us have a look at context


So, we have the various skimpy outfits. The quite frankly random cleavage that happens to a lot of generic dungeon sets (that gear set that covers EVERYTHING but the women's eyes and their cleavage, for example?) A lot of women in the game do enjoy dressing up in outfits that reveal the curves of their female toon. Others just want their plate armor to cover their soft organs. We have the Queen of the Red Dragons dressed in the typical bikini outfight - surely a more regal outfit could be found for her? (A part of me feels that dragons wouldn't clothe themselves at all in human form, but male dragons don't show any inclination towards nekkidness.)

Moving on from skimpy outfits, we head to the language applied to anything that is sexy or shows flesh - slut-shaming, body hate. There is a difference between criticising the ubiquity of the in-game and fan art that has plate bikini and is catering to the male gaze, and directing hateful language towards the female body, or a woman who chooses to wear a short skirt. Unfortunately the two tend to go hand in hand.

Next we have the two major female characters being excised from the Lich King defeat story. Sylvanas and Jaina are there all the way through WCIII, Vanilla, TBC and Lower Spire, and yet when it comes to the Lich King fight they are mysteriously absent. There is no absolution for their interactions with Arthas, in this expansion.

Then those two major female characters are the embodiment of classic 'female leader' tropes, with Sylvanas being patently 'up to no good' and Jaina succumbing to female 'weakness' at every turn. Actually, take a look at this fabulous breakdown of female characters in WoW, with percentages and character archetypes.

And Tyrande? Yes she can sit quietly in Darnassus and glare meaningfully over at at Fandrel. She doesn't need to do anything. (Note that I haven't explored Tyrande's role in Cataclysm yet, but for a lot of the books her storyline is defined and couched within the way it impacts upon the two men in her life.)

Then we have the 'habit' of Jaina-hate, calling her a whore or a slut because she dared to have relationships with more than one man. This is not of Blizzard's making, but it is a perfect example of sexist attitudes prevalent within the player base (and certainly not limited to men.) She needs a storyline makeover that doesn't involve her 'relationships' with men.

Then Maiev Shadowsong who, by the end, only had purpose to exist because of a man, a story thread explicitly acknowledge in the Illidan fight. Not to mention that most female 'bosses' will play second fiddle to a leading male character. Of 2 female 'end bosses', Vashj still plays second fiddle to Illidan and Onyxia (besides being dead) is arguabley outranked by Nefarion. For each expansion, the ultimate end-game entities have been male - Kel'thuzud, Illidan/Archimonde, and Lich King. Cataclysm won't change this, but I am looking forward to a future expansion featuring Azshara (although common sense tells me that this is likely to be an expansion involving Sargeras.)

No female soldier in the victory statue. Despite there being male and female guard npcs all over the game, they are absent from this representation of victory. Not just the statue, the fact of being shouted down for having the temerity to talk about it.

And come to that, enter groups of NPCs with no female model at all - ogres, kobolds, furbolgs, Gronn. Although there could be a comment made for the idea that these are races which simply lack the sexual dimorphism of the playable races, or lack a true gender binary/human style reproductive system. Dragons would be an example of this, although they have very gendered human forms, there is always Chromie/Chromuru. Wolfshead cites this as an example of sexism against men as the 'villains', which would hold more weight if we had more women as 'heros' in the first place. But no, all the females, good and bad, play second fiddle to male protagonists. Only minor, insignificant NPCs get to pass the Bechdel test in WoW (I am unsure if this applies to any of the books though.)

I mean seriously, the Bechdel test? It is fucking scary how few games and movies pass this.
1. It has to have at least two women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

Numerous 'jokes' in the beta that play off gendered insults and stereotypes, and one joke that is either about consensual bondage/goblin greed or about rape, depending on whether you hear 'he' or 'she'. I'm not saying that some of the current jokes are any better, but there are ways do innuendo jokes without buying into the more degrading aspects of being compared a female dog, or a golddigger. Not only that, but it is male designers putting these jokes in the mouths of female player characters - not the same thing as the word being reclaimed and used by women at all.

A lot of the female jokes in general will play off gender and sexuality, while male jokes will be just that - jokes with no gender related component. The female human jokes even gently poke fun at gender stereotypes (rather than merely perpetuating them) with "So me and my friends swap clothes all the time, we're all the same size!"

The new horde leader calling Sylvanas a 'Bitch'. While it can be 'explained away' by Blizzard wanting to represent Garrosh as the sort of person who says that, the fact is that they are legitimising the use of the language. On the scale of insults towards women it is relatively low (and also cue commentators telling me they're female and they're okay with it) but it is a largely unnecessary step, and it comes out of the mouth of a character that the audience is apparently supposed to sympathise with.

A questline in the Goblin starter zone where the player character has to murder their ex-boyfriend/girlfriend, and rip out their still-beating hearts.

The fact that, of all the Warrior spell and talent icons, Chas points out to us that the only recognisably female Icon is for a talent called Rude Interruption. Hmm what about the other classes? Only looking at the Cataclysm tree for these talents, and not at the spell icons.

So the 'female icons' for our talents, and most of them are healing/nurture related, with Hunters and Warriors at the exception to that, while 4 other classes have no female representation at all in their talent trees. As with all my other examples, this is a small thing and easily ignored in Isolation. When taken in context with larger trends it is disheartening. (And please don't tell me I'm overreacting - I write a lot, it's what I do.) I will say that Blizzard has put a lot of gender neutral icons, and I sincerely doubt this was intentional on the part of the artists.

It's Playboy Bunny Ears being distributed as part of Noblegarden, a holiday otherwise associated with Easter, and an achievement that requires you to put the ears on female characters of level 18 of each race - a clear reference to the general 'age of consent' in many parts of the western world. The ears themselves are pretty innocuous. As a sex-positive person I do not hold that all pornography is degrading to women, but I find the Playboy brand extremely problematic and unwelcome in the WoW universe, especially coming with the 'level 18' reference. I'm not offended by the achievement so much as worried by it.

It's the character models all adhering to the traditional hourglass figure, even though the actual body type range is fairly broad, and yet not even modelling the boob animations with any kind of support. Playing my favourite dwarf characters always make me wince when they run - even in plate the boobs wobble around unconstrained! There is a positive angle to this, in that Blizzard changed the models of the women in game in response to the complaints of female players. As someone who adored the old female troll model, this makes me sad, but it is positive that Blizzard responded to the female voices rather than dismissing them.

And it's all the shit that many women have to experience in game, from the player base, from internalised sexism, from other women.

"Why does everyone automatically assume I know tailoring and cooking?" is female human joke phrase repeated by a lot of female players - except that it instead refers to playing a healer, or using feminine wiles to get things from guild mates, or needing protection and help from male friends.

So, -isms and Geekery, Pewter?


Oh yes, I was talking about it in a wider context. For reasons of space I haven't gone into detail of why something is or isn't sexist in the list above, I've merely attempted to highlight an awful lot of things which add up to some problematic view points. I don't think Azeroth as a world is anti-feminist at all, but a lot of what the designers put in game clearly come from a particular, privileged position. Even raising your voice to speak out about such things brings in silencing accusations of Reverse Sexism and 'being overly politically correct' (and even blaming the sexism on the female player for presenting themselves as female within game. What about, yanno, blaming the man for being sexist towards her?)

Wanting to change these things, wanting to talk about them, doesn't mean sanitising the World of Warcraft. Far from it - it means enrichment, and moving beyond the tired old privileged tropes of male-gaze orientated fantasy, and a discouragement of the sort of bigoted language that has free rein in many guilds. It is not sanitising to want two major female law characters to talk to each other about something other than a man, or to want a female boss to be the focus of an expansion, or to speak out against rape culture (I really recommend reading the comments of Wolfshead's article as well, as there is some excellent discussion/points made by Ken and Ysharros. This blog post is not a critique/answer to Wolfshead, but he does represent very mainstream opinions.)

As a geek feminist I commonly have my views dismissed because I'm directly commenting on issues that currently concern main-stream feminist (like gender representation in government, gender mutilation, contraception and body rights.) This is not a blog about mainstream feminism, about why menstrual products are taxed as luxury products or how I feel about wearing make up at work. The value of the more global battlefields do not mean that the smaller geek/culture discussions are not worth having. Games, Art, TV, they all reflect values and attitudes that we have in the real world. Science Fiction and Fantasy have long been a place for writers to speculate on topics of gender, power and sex, and Games merely continue that tradition as they enter our lives very early on in the western world. Geek things matter to me, and I'm invested in them. I chose to watch and read all kinds of things, but consumption of media doesn't grant immunity to critique (or we'd never have game reviews.)

The idea that as geek females we should simply put up and shut up, we should be quiet, and that we are to blame because we want to participate, is extremely damaging and sexist in it's own right. All too often male bloggers and posters on forums will pull out a female gamer friend who agrees with their point of view and use that to support a privileged point of view. As a gamer I have fallen into the trap of painting myself as 'not like those other girl gamers who flirt and cause drama', and that sort of internalised sexism is as much a hindrance to equality and progressiveness as anything else.

On Heteronormativity, Race and Gender Binaries


And all of the above comes from a straight, white, educated woman. There are many further discussions to be hand on intersectional topics. If women, who aren't a 'small minority' have trouble enough with being told that not being 'quite equal' is good enough, then topics of race and sexuality (which are talked about even less than feminism) are the elephant in the room. This isn't about men, or hating them, it's about what is not visible already.
Tags: discussion: gender, epic post, fucking epic post

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[info]popehippo

August 4 2010, 15:37:38 UTC 1 year ago

Oh this gonna be good.

Still, awesome read, thanks. :3

[info]popehippo

August 4 2010, 15:40:17 UTC 1 year ago

A questline in the Goblin starter zone where the player character has to murder their ex-boyfriend/girlfriend, and rip out their still-beating hearts.

I misread this as the worgen one at first and then re-read it.

Not enough O_________________o face in the world. The HELL?

[info]pewter

1 year ago

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]marzipan9

1 year ago

[info]pewter

1 year ago

[info]quink

1 year ago

[info]heatermcca

August 4 2010, 15:40:04 UTC 1 year ago

Hear, frickin' HEAR!

[info]elder_doraie

August 4 2010, 16:12:06 UTC 1 year ago

Oh, you just made my month by being the first person I've seen in ages who didn't write "here, here!" (What does that even mean?!? Are you calling your dog??)

On topic: Great post, even if I do have to go stick my head further into the sand now..

[info]voyevoda

August 4 2010, 15:55:27 UTC 1 year ago

This article is amazing. *applause* So true, all of it.

[info]dusktodawn

August 4 2010, 15:59:53 UTC 1 year ago

I had aspirations of maybe one day joining the art team for Blizzard/WoW after possibly pursuing college to hone my skills and then ran across a picture of their "art" team which was nothing but guys O_o; I think it was the last Blizzcon or something, Iunno, but it was discouraging, because they've got a name for them and everything.

On top of having people rip into me about my style not being close enough to WoW, I just gave up :(

[info]arwydd

August 4 2010, 19:16:25 UTC 1 year ago

Aw, that's really sad that you gave up. :( You could break in there and shake things up like crazy!!

[info]zhiva_the_mage

August 4 2010, 16:00:48 UTC 1 year ago

Thank you for this article.

[info]blade_flurry

August 4 2010, 16:08:28 UTC 1 year ago

Re the icons and spells - I just saw some blog post on the new warlock ability that wasn't healing related - but it was something to the effect of 'disruptive shout' and had a screaming hysterical female face, another stereotype.

About the women leaders and their territories; I'm bothered by how it seems only the female-led areas have large rebellions as questlines (Theramore/Jaina, then Sylvanas/Undercity with Wrathgate). And seeing all the demolished night elf areas for Cata, from the Sentinels losing WSG to Azshara being a goblin zone, sends an implied message that the night-elf led armies, predominantly female, needing saving by the other Alliance races, that their defenses were too weak on their own, they're too ancient, outdated, dancing around in nature etc etc. I understand that the night elf zones had a lot of pretty but dead space and that they needed a revamp for new players, but so many destructions and invasions at once, when compared to natural-disaster changes in other zones, sends the wrong message.

Goblins and their actions make me uncomfortable in general, the screenshots of all their thoughtless polluted areas bother me with all the press on the pollution in the gulf.

I opened some tickets on Wrath beta about the Queen of the Dragons, I thought it was also short-sighted how two female leaders ended up with the same armor, just a different color - more effort could have been made for two major characters. She used to be wearing the Sunwell caster crafted robes, I think. People have argued that she represents fertility, but she still should have gotten another outfit besides a pink pantless version of Sylvanas.

I assumed that the statue of the human/orc represented Bolvar and Saurfang Jr, and like designing usable tabards, it's much easier to opt for a symmetrical statue instead of designing a more detailed one. I'd prefer the fountain to only have two figures then with a plague. Or more involvement in the LK story with not only Jaina/Sylvanas, but other races - surely the Forsaken should have a space on the fountain for all of their hardships, or a representative from the Ebon Blade. I still feel cut off from the whole LK storyline because of the race I play and lack of involvement.

[info]pewter

August 4 2010, 17:07:29 UTC 1 year ago

Are you sure it's not the warrior ability I mentioned in the post? 'Rude Interruption'?

I hadn't noticed the theme of 'rebellion' in female led areas, that's a really good point

[info]pewter

1 year ago

[info]aether

1 year ago

[info]pewter

1 year ago

[info]woolf

August 4 2010, 16:10:20 UTC 1 year ago

+100.

Also? The Stalvan Mistmantle quest line. I don't understand how stalking and murder are supposed to be entertainment. But chances are good that the quest design team has never had to deal with it, so it's totally all in good fun!

[info]phoenix_anca

August 4 2010, 17:54:25 UTC 1 year ago

I think that questline is awesome, and reinforces that there's plenty of non-supernatural evil in the world too. And the murder is caught and punished, and none of the NPCs blame anyone but him.

But I've also seen a video that acts out the storyline and implies Tiloa might have had some responsibility for what happened; even if that take on it is a tiny minority - and it was the first and only time I'd come across someone saying that - I think that maybe a line or two from the NPCs about how the victim was in no way at fault wouldn't go amiss.

[info]nerglish

August 4 2010, 16:12:19 UTC 1 year ago

Great article Pewter, thank you for posting :)

This article got me thinking about the first time I realized that as a female who enjoyed games, I was thought of as lesser player. I don't remember how young I was, but The Little Mermaid game was just released on Sega Genesis. I beat it in about 2 hours and I was really disappointed by the entire game. Basically you sang things to death and that's all. There was no challenge to the game and so I turned the game in and got Toe Jam and Earl instead. Yet, I still longed to be represented in games and would always choose the female character when possible, only to be disappointed in her weaknesses (i.e Cammy in Street Fighter).

Now years later, I'm glad that the female representation of WoW is not solely in the hands of the developers because as you noted, they aren't very good at representing us, even if in a statue.

[info]malrai

August 4 2010, 16:17:22 UTC 1 year ago

So. Damn. True.

Though I agree with one of those linked blogs, I like how each and every female character has a different body type, and how only the female blood elves are actually the "supermodel" model, but malleable enough that they can ALL be played with in art.

I enjoy drawing chubby elves. They're just so cute.

[info]phaetonschariot

August 4 2010, 23:12:28 UTC 1 year ago

I actually see the belves as sort of lanky and stick like rather than sexy with their skinniness, but then again I know that that's my view of them and that they're not intended to be like that. I have the same thing with Keira Knightley in Bend It Like Beckham, particularly when they're at a club in Germany. Presumably she's supposed to be hot but to me she just looks like a bendy twig. Which is fine especially as she's wanting to be a professional soccer player, it's just not ~alluring~ to me.

[info]reservoir

August 4 2010, 16:22:10 UTC 1 year ago

It's not FUN calling out your friends on ableist/sexist/racist bullshit

Indeed!

Then we have the 'habit' of Jaina-hate, calling her a whore or a slut because she dared to have relationships with more than one man.

That one drives me bonkers. >:|

[info]femmetofarad

August 4 2010, 16:32:12 UTC 1 year ago

I was talking to a friend about this, and he said "It's like there isn't anyone but white males working there."

This is a good article, and it really condenses a lot of what I feel about things but can't seem to form coherent thoughts without sputtering outrage.

Interestingly enough, as I only play a warlock, I always felt that the icon for fear was female. I guess that it could go either way, as it doesn't have defining characteristics really. Maybe it is the bangs, or all the purple... Also, in warlocking terms, let's not forget that the developers can't be arsed to draw a female meta form - because I am so powerful with fel energy I can magically switch genders, too! (But, technically, felguards are female.)

I would just like to see a women who was powerful and not obsessive nor bat-poop crazy nor mooning over some guy (or powerful because of that guy). Would be icing on the cake if she were wearing normal clothes.

[info]starfire68

August 4 2010, 16:37:24 UTC 1 year ago

Well-written and you make a lot of very good points. It would be nice if the devs saw this...and actually paid attention ;)

[info]frankisaysrelax

August 4 2010, 16:37:54 UTC 1 year ago

I love this.

"Why does everyone automatically assume I know tailoring and cooking?" is female human joke phrase repeated by a lot of female players - except that it instead refers to playing a healer

I was reminded of the 'olol you play WoW and you're a GIRL you must play a healer!' thing the other day and it made me so angry. I made a profile on OK Cupid not long ago and on it it mentions that I play WoW. I got a message two days ago saying:

'What class you play I'm guessing a priest night elf or bloodelf.' (Yeah, the grammar was awful).

I actually went, 'er, whu?' because I've never experienced it before, though I know it exists. So I hit him back in my best troll accent to tell him about how my hunter disapproves of his disgusting generalisations >.>.

Er, anyway, I absolutely agree with your whole post and I'm going to go RARGH and show it to anyone who thinks that sexism doesn't exist in WoW.

[info]dravvie

August 4 2010, 18:07:35 UTC 1 year ago

My very first experience with wow was my ex deciding that a female night elf healer was perfect for me. Because I would really take great joy in healing his guild. -_-

[info]xxan0ther_dayxx

August 4 2010, 16:40:54 UTC 1 year ago

I agree with this article very much. It's been going through all video games, really, that has any females in it. My sister and I always used to make comments about how not logical it is for female characters to be running around in high heels and skimpy outfits for the duration of the game. It ticked us off and everything, so I'm glad others share our opinions.

Thanks for this!

[info]silvers_shadows

August 4 2010, 16:43:41 UTC 1 year ago

You know, my first thought about the Goblin quests with your girl/boyfriend were "Oh gee, heteronormative much?"

More thoughts to come later when I've had time to think but that immediately popped to mind.

[info]malrai

August 4 2010, 17:07:53 UTC 1 year ago

As a lesbian, I can sort of understand why they did that.

Would YOU want your video game getting on the headlines and being protested by Fred Phelps and his band of crazies? Parents cancelling thier kids accounts? Because they DARED have a homosexual pairing beyond subtext?

[info]lianzim74

1 year ago

[info]runaan

1 year ago

[info]fawnuh

1 year ago

[info]clevermynnie

August 4 2010, 16:49:59 UTC 1 year ago

Thank you for writing out all of these examples. I think that people who find ways to excuse one or two of these issues will hopefully think twice about seeing the many little things that add up. Misogyny: you're soaking in it!

[info]kryptongirl

August 4 2010, 17:11:49 UTC 1 year ago

Wow, it really hits hard to see how underrepresented we are all compiled in one post.

[info]zofia

August 5 2010, 03:55:23 UTC 1 year ago

I brush off a lot of day to day misogyny but seeing as I spend so much time playing this game and spend so much money on Blizz products... it does make me feel a little dejected that something I have come to enjoy so much can really suck this bad. :/

[info]lianzim74

August 4 2010, 17:12:05 UTC 1 year ago

I'll be honest. I think a lot of this stuff is WAY too read into. Not everything was created just to hold the female population down. I honestly don't understand some people's need to see rampant misogyny in well, EVERYTHING.

Sometimes a cake is just a cake.

[info]pewter

August 4 2010, 17:15:16 UTC 1 year ago Edited:  August 4 2010, 17:17:03 UTC

Well this is the point of the post - none of this was created to intentionally hold the female population down but all together it is rather staggering. The Bechdel test is not exactly extreme, after all. All the little things don't bother me, it's the entire dollop of them.

Also, it's not like I need or want to see it. It's there, and I've had so many other examples ranging from behaviour (not Blizz's fault) to other examples that I've missed.

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]kadevha

1 year ago

[info]nerglish

1 year ago

[info]liannerose

August 4 2010, 17:20:08 UTC 1 year ago

You know, I actually liked the Alpha troll female body type from vanilla that's in this picture -

She actually LOOKS LIKE A TROLL! Like, a troll troll... with the crouching and the being awesome thing... Who complained about that?! The only reason I make male trolls over female's is BECAUSE I like the male posture and crouches, if the women actually did that, I'd like them. I think they're so freaking dull as they are, don't even look like the same species...

Aaaaand I think I'm derailing, sorry.

[info]pewter

August 4 2010, 17:26:33 UTC 1 year ago

It's not derailing! I like them too :D

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]rowanf

August 4 2010, 17:23:16 UTC 1 year ago

So much this. Thanks for a very cogent summary.

I am feeling particularly slimed atm from spending the weekend in AV. I think PvPers are much worse than other populations in WoW - I mean, you can turn off trade, choose you guild, etc. But you are in a BG with a bunch of strangers so why not let all your racist, homophobic, sexist nonsense out on the other 39 people here just trying to play the game.

I play both sides. Until this weekend I liked that the Alliance has a female commander. There are usually folks who will defend Balinda. Including one notable twink who claims to have a marital relationship with her but at least he is always organizing so that we actually defend the bunkers. But I was in one BG this weekend where they started talking about all the horrible things they wanted to do to Balinda, the "fugly dwarf". It was obscene, hate filled and grotesque. (I will not repeat what they said.)

As a female player it makes me really wonder if this is the sort of thing men talk about when they think there are no women around. I feel slimed and discounted. And I really, really didn't want to know about some of those fantasies. Really.

[info]phoenix_singing

August 4 2010, 17:45:34 UTC 1 year ago

Not gonna lie, that's a huge part of the reason why I don't pvp. I mean, I suck at it and I just don't enjoy pvp itself - it's an aspect of the game that just never grew on me - but damn, the stuff people say in chat and the way they so often treat each other is so appalling. Between the stress of pvp itself and the strain of seeing so much concentrated asshattery in one chat window, I just can't convince myself that it's worth it. :-/

[info]rowanf

1 year ago

[info]rowanf

1 year ago

[info]okojosan

1 year ago

[info]rowanf

1 year ago

[info]rowanf

1 year ago

[info]yachiru

August 4 2010, 17:29:31 UTC 1 year ago

I think men are treated similarly. Well the models at least. It's all about huge breasts (pecs) and tiny waists. I remember that whole weird thing where they had to beef up the blood elf males because they were too girly.

[info]kryptongirl

August 4 2010, 17:42:17 UTC 1 year ago Edited:  August 4 2010, 17:42:45 UTC

Yeah, the great outcry from male players about how unfair character models are is deafening. Silly women and your problems, men have to go through the same thing as you!

But seriously, let's not derail this post. We were doing so well.

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]zofia

1 year ago

[info]ilesere

1 year ago

[info]yachiru

1 year ago

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]yachiru

1 year ago

[info]popehippo

1 year ago

[info]rowanf

1 year ago

[info]ilesere

August 4 2010, 18:02:05 UTC 1 year ago

Nice article. It makes me uncomfortable and sad that this is a game we all love to play but it has so many problems. All of these points brought out here only show the thoughtlessness that our society promotes when it comes to real equality.

I like the plate bikinis. I think they're funny. That is MY preference though and I respect others who find them pointless and sexist. I wish we could have options in our armor. Bikini plate or full coverage, tunic or robe. I'd love that.



Small derail: "women should wear bras because otherwise men might be distracted by nipples." I've never heard this! It makes sense but it kind of makes me go WTF from a *personal* point of view. I know that my boobs get irritating when I don't wear a bra. I could care less if people see my nipples. lol

[info]unlovablehands

August 4 2010, 19:07:01 UTC 1 year ago

I would love for there to be a little box in the same user options section as things like Show Helm and whatnot to turn off Sexy Armor. It messes with my suspension of disbelief!

[info]dravvie

August 4 2010, 18:02:07 UTC 1 year ago

You know what's funny about the all male victory statue on my server?

...It appeared thanks to a guild that until the end of Burning Crusade, ONLY had female toons.

[info]quink

August 4 2010, 19:01:34 UTC 1 year ago

Lol... you know, I've actually gotten comments about the guild name in pugs (For those not on our server, it's 'Ladies of Destiny' and did in fact start out as an RP guild for female toons).

To this day there are still very few male toons, and even though guys make up most of our players, we have a much closer ratio of male to female players in any 'hardcore' guild I've been in, which is nice. While we do have more men than women, but I kind of like that many of them come from a background of specifically RPing female toons while still kicking ass.

I actually had someone in a pug ask if we were really full of chicks and how we got so progressed if that was the case. I had another who inspected my (female night elf) boyfriend and I and said "... damn, I just got shown up by a guild of girls". Which is funny, in a really sad sort of way. I mean, why not?

(I won't get started on being a guild of 'ladies' from an RP server in battlegrounds... until we wreck the other team)

[info]dravvie

1 year ago

[info]131_di

August 4 2010, 18:06:09 UTC 1 year ago

I was just thinking about stuff like this when I was looking at the Starcraft wiki last night. Don't get me wrong, I love the Protoss to tiny itsy bitsy bits, but they've got the typical "females rarely reach positions of power" shit going on, and Selendis looks like a goddamned twig compared to the boys (no matter how pretty and capable of making a case for alien lesbianism she might be). Even her cyber-shoes are in a high heel motif rather than the plain ol flat clunkers the others have!

Raaaaargh.

[info]celticmyst08

August 4 2010, 18:11:34 UTC 1 year ago

I appreciate this post. While I don't necessarily agree with every single example you gave, it truly was sobering to see the extent to which women are stereotyped in WoW. You were very level-headed and articulate, which also makes me happy. *applaud*
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