WoW_Ladies: Girl Gamers of World of Warcraft

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noabsolutes wrote in wow_ladies
Hi wow_ladies! By now many of you know that Blizzard Did A Dumb yesterday and announced upcoming changes the the forums, which actually all sound great except for the minor detail that your real name is going to be attached to all posts in the forums.


The post about this yesterday by the wonderful fledglingoflove has reached over 1200 comments, making it nearly 3x as big as our second most-commented post ever. Clearly we all have something to say about this, and the mods think it wise to keep this info close to the top of the page as possible since wow_ladies moves pretty fast. Please contain your comments on RealID to either this post or the one yesterday by fledglingoflove. Duplicate posts will be deleted in order to provide a more fluid browsing experience for everyone.

NOTE: These changes are NOT retroactive and will occur once the Cataclysm forums are live. This feature will go live earlier for players of Starcraft II.



This gets cut now that a new post is up, I apologize for what I"ve been doing to your friends pagesCollapse )

I've been angry, sad and angry and now I've just wound my way back to sad. The biggest realization for me in all of this is that this decision just punishes all of the kind, good and generous people in WoW and lets the assholes win.

I have to be mad about this or I'll be (metaphorically) crying.

I am having so many EMOTIONS over this, I really really did not think this would happen.

Has anyone linked the poll yet?

One of the folks on my realm linked us this:

I love the people that post thier real names in the megathread and then cry when someone actually takes them up on the dare.

Yea some girl just called their bluff and was easily found on guess what... FACEBOOK AMG. Seriously stupid.

Here are my posts collected:

First post #19191 I quoted a very well written post and added

I am genuinely shocked by this announcement and I wish I was shocked by the people getting banned for more creative disagreements. (Shout out to the level 3 Tauren John Conner who warned us all about skynet) If only Blizzard was so diligent in banning trolls in other forums we wouldn't even "need" Real Id to stop them. It's disgusting.

I always post on my main. I am not a troll raging that I can't be an internet tough guy anymore. I am someone who doesn't want 12 million strangers knowing my name and thus also knowing my gender and then further whatever else they could google up about me.

Real Id was supposed to be for REAL LIFE friends. I have one real ID friend - My husband. So not a single one of those 11,999,999 people who can read my name are my real life friends.

You want a facebook for gamers? Well make one. Set up an entirely different site - heck you can even connect it to real ID, but don't force us to give out our real names here - i am sorry but the don't like it don't post argument is compete garbage and the most blatant cop out ever. Not everyone wants to wait a week to hear back from tech support through an email just to maintain their privacy because we all know you aren't going to give me a week game credit while I wait for the email to help me when the next patch breaks my computer.

Heck you want to cut down on trolls on level 1 alts - it's called a username. You remember, just like the thing we used to sign in with before battlenet.

2nd post:

Q u o t e:
The best part about all of this fear-mongering, pearl-clutching, and short-soiling is that it's centered around something completely optional. I'm reminded of Donkey Kong's line in that classic Simpsons shoplifting episode: "Duh, it's the company's fault for making you want it so much."

Says the level 1 alt...

It is option in the sense that if you don't like it you don't have to post on the forums.

I guess people better hope all the patches from now on work perfectly because those people who won't be asking in tech support will now be emailing and over loading the already over loaded phone lines and those who can log in but have a tech issue will be clogging the tickets up even further just to get an answer that they could have gotten in 15 mins in a forum they they "don't have to" use anymore.

I put my name in spokeo. There were three and two were me at old addresses before I got married. My married name is more common, however upon searching for my husband he came up the first for our state and it had his age, his sign, our address with a google image, that we have children, his job, his income, and how long we have lived here. Also listed were his parents. Our vehicle was pictured out front the plate in clear view.

To act like there are no psychos on wow that would, if they found out you were geographically desirable, come to your house or screw up your life is frighteningly naive. I have seen people RAEG over not getting the right buff in an instance, imagine if they found out they lived an hour away from you and you had done something that really ticked them off.

This change is completely unnecessary. A simple universal username could accomplish the same thing. It is clearly all about their new facebook merger not about the player base or their security. The real "fearmongering" here is those who would try to make these legitimate concerns seem outlandish.

3rd post

Q u o t e:
To all those claiming this is an invasion of privacy.....

You are wrong. The only one that is going to be able to reveal your real name to the internet community is YOU.

Those threatening to cancel their accounts: It more or less proves the only reason you play this game is to garner attention through unconstructive posts, flame, troll or otherwise be a detriment to socialization as a whole.

You are an idiot.

When I signed up for battle net it was because I had to so that I could play and I was confident any information given would be kept private. Now if I want tech support or customer service I have to wait on hold for hours, if I can even get to being on hold or put in a ticket that will probably take weeks now instead of days.

Some people have unique names. I looked up my name on spokeo and three came up - two of those people were me before I got married. One has my address as where my parents live right now. It has my age and both my parents. That's not a risk at all should I tick off the wrong person I guess I should be thankful i married a man with a common last name- but wait I can't change my battle net name so i cam stuck with the rare one.

I post on my main and I have never trolled. I just don't want 12 million people knowing who i am - especially since giving out your real info was a bannable offense until 21 hours ago.

You are the real troll - how much are you getting from blizzard?

I posted twice more but it was really the same as what I said above to other people trying to make it seem like worrying about 12 million people knowing your real name is crazy - like at least one of those people couldn't be a total psycho.

What I am sending to Blizzard (have to cut it down to complain in the support email ><):

Adding my voice to the shitpile you are receiving regarding the proposed RealID forum changes. First I`ll address the reasons you cite for making this change.

On in-game friendships translating to offline ones: You are absolutely right that I have made friends in-game and we became close enough that one day we agreed to exchange names, phone numbers, photos, etc. The key here is that we chose to do this. A patronizing game company did not. If I wanted every single WOW player capable of browsing the forums to know my name, I`d roll an alt on every single server and chat them all up. I don`t think it comes as a surprise when I say I don`t want this - in fact, I want the exact opposite. I don`t ever want my name given to another player without my express permission. I don`t need your help making friends. You don`t get to decide who knows my name to encourage us to become a big happy family. Great people play this game. Creepy stalker-types also play this game. Your good faith doesn`t change the harsh reality that some gamers are raging douchewads who I never want to be associated with past my toon name.

On stopping trolls: This isn`t going to stop trolls. This will stop the level 1 alt trolls, sure. But the real trolls, the true creeps, they don`t care if hateful language is attached to their real names. You worship Facebook, right? Go check out their trolls, blissfully posting away whatever filth pops into their tiny heads. This decision shows that Blizzard considers "stopping trolls" more important than the safety of their entire community of customers. You reward trolls by making their victims` names publicly available. You punish intelligent, constructive forum posters by forcing them to give up their anonymity should they want to contribute to a discussion.

On your obsession with social networking: For starters, if you want your game to be more capable of social interaction for your players, why not start by researching other gaming companies with wildly better implemented systems? If that just isn`t social enough for you and you feel obligated to copy Facebook, recall for a moment that they have privacy settings. You should be ashamed that a company that took so much flak for lax customer privacy now has vastly better security options than you. Sure, Facebook has my name, photos, and email address. It also has my profile unsearchable, visible only to friends, and even different levels of visibility for groups of friends. In exchange for having my information, Facebook lets me control how it is used and distributed. Come on, controlling the information about you that is publicly available is internet rule #1.

On giving out your employees information: You sure backpedaled out of that fast! With the almost immediate response to some of your forum mods having to change their personal information and delete their facebooks, I`d hope that the glaring issues with this would be more apparent. Your cavalier treatment of your own employees` information and the immediate backlash is representative of what customers will also face.


On the relationship between player and character: when I play WOW I am my character. I don`t RP at all, but I still immerse myself in the fantasy world. Even if I`m just killing pirates or shooting the breeze in guild chat, I am Akabeko. Seeing my real name and my friends` real names on RealID is a shock of cold water that immediately removes me from the game world. On the forums, whether talking about resto druid specs or 401Ks, I am Akabeko. Even if I am BFF with my guildie and w are friends on facebook and call each other every night and talk about movies and politics and everything non-game related, when in game or on the forums I am Akabeko. When we talk through the gaming medium we are tauren and blood elf and troll. I don`t play this game to be [real name removed - I am not a moron] - I play to lose myself in a fantasy character. I want my identity in WOW to be tied to my toon, not my last name, no matter what I`m talking about.

Suggestions: Screw the obsession with real names. We are gamers playing games. The games have a social component, yes, but we don`t play social games exclusively to make friends - we play to level up, acquire wealth, kill mobs. Give us a GamerID, an internet handle usable in game and on the forums. You can answer questions, guild recruit, and troll the forums under the same name and be accountable for your actions that way. You can friend people across servers and chat with them under this handle.

Let us make our own decisions about privacy. This means...give us privacy options. Shame on your for not. Let us choose what to display and to whom. This is such a no-brainer you should have thought it up on your own. Shame on you.

Be inclusive. When the options for forum posting are "opt-in and broadcast your info" or "don`t opt-in and never participate in the social activity on the forums we are encouraging you to be social in" you are excluding every single customer who won`t compromise their privacy for your ridiculous social requirements. People who belong to minority groups, or simply want to keep their personal life unconnected to their professional one - you are excluding us.

I realize that people threaten to quit the game all the time when proposed changes come out. There are plenty of game changes planned for Cataclysm that don`t float my boat, but I had always assumed I would stop playing when the game was no longer fun, not when it became compromising to do so. Not having druid tree form is, in my opinion, a silly reason to quit. Having to choose between participating in forums (which I pay for, as evidenced by the fact that you can`t access them from an inactive account) or silencing myself to protect my identity is ludicrous. This is not scare-mongering. Those of us speaking up have legitimate concerns. Many have experienced online threats, stalking, and harassment. Many have not and never want to. Reminding us that our fears don`t influence your decision with our privacy is supporting a culture that already marginalizes non-white non-males. Our fear of bullying will keep us silent in order to keep our names secret, and you are openly endorsing those bullies. You are the bully, in telling us how and when we must use our real names in order to be social. Shame on you.

The Wall Street Journal article is up to 555 comments, most of them disgruntled former customers of Activision-Blizzard voicing thier dissatisfaction with this decision.

----links should be updated as of right now----

Edited at 2010-07-08 03:53 am (UTC)



Ladies... I just posted this to the forum and am canceling my subby now. I think the worst part about all of this for me at least, is I don't think I'll ever find a com that I keep coming back to again, and again. Almost makes me wanna hold a candlelight vigil. I <3 you guys and you Mods. I really hope this gets fixed. I dont want to lose this community. You ladies make WoW that much more enjoyable, thanks for having me.

I feel so completely blindsided by this change Blizz. You have made a WoW Veteran very sad indeed.

Why is it that you feel the need to do this to us? Have all these posts meant not a wick to you? I’m so deeply ashamed now that my favorite game has come down to padding their pockets with more money and are trying to jump the band wagon of a company who is already known for issues protecting their users privacy rights. I really, really wish you guys wouldn’t do this to us.

I’ve raided from Vanilla, to BC, to Wrath and enjoyed and happily paid for every expansion you came out with. You’ve had some amazing ideas and nothing could top what you’ve done.

I’ve paid for my account, my gf’s account, my friends account. I’ve bought sparkle ponies, merchandise, and handed out bought copies of the game to people who were interested because of just how good this game is and how much I love it.

But this change… Oh mercy, this change makes me ashamed to give you my hard earned money. This change makes me want to liquidate my stocks of ATVI because this change is not something I condone. Blatantly ignoring the rights of your customer and putting it under the blanket statement of it being under the TOS does NOT make it an acceptable business practice. Thinking that this will undo the Trolls entirely is not only foolhardy but punishes the good people. The players who have been with you from the start, and the players who love this game to pieces.

But it’s not just the player base. I am appalled by the fact that you are throwing your amazing, good natured employees into the fray and endangering their safety, and sanity because you are ignoring our pleas. This is not a smart move. What is it going to take to make you realize what you’re doing? Do you want an employee killed? How about the girl above me? The guy below me? I wouldn’t want to be held accountable for something that deeply saddening. I really hope you wouldn’t either. This will run the game into the ground and you’ll have no one to blame but yourselves.

I have been watching the news on this change spiral out of control. Yesterday I was fuming with rage that you would leave your entire fan base to the wills of the internet. Now I’m just hurt. I can’t believe you’re doing this to us. There are many here who are not privileged or feel safe enough with this change. It is with this group that I stand.

Tonight I’m canceling my account, and others. You will not get my money anymore Activision. If the only way to get this message across is to stop playing entirely then so be it. I’ve enjoyed the game and I look forwards to a much smarter move on your end. Until then, no more. I’m not going to stand for this and you should take a cold and hard look as to why. We’re telling you in plain English. All you have to do is wise up.

This is still a good place to talk to people even if you don't play anymore. :)

Aha. Not sure if everyone can see this or see this for long, but the MIT Technology Review has an AP of one of the articles here.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I was reading a few threads on the topic at Reddit and someone suggested contacting the EFF (Electronic Frontiers Foundation). They're a "civil liberties group defending
your rights in the digital world". Might be useful as another way to bring in pressure to Blizz.

When I was starting out as a moderator for WoW Jackass, I remember the owner telling me not to approve anything revealing a person's RL identity. He told me that someone once linked to screenshots on their Google Picasa account, which directly linked to their real name and photo.

This was awhile before RealID was actually implemented. If stuff like this already happens without it, it'll get even worse.

Re: add this one master list pls, it has teeth =)

I believe this one is in the Appendix!

(The Appendix is going to go in tomorrow's master post tomorrow, I WILL CRAM IT IN SOMEHOW)

The 30,000+ post's statistics

I have an interesting post for you -- statistics of the now 30,000+ commented thread on WoW's own forums.

Copy/pasted for posterity or in case the post (or thread, god forbid) gets deleted.

Also, someone on twitter noted that of the eight servers most posted to the thread, 7 are RP, and the 8th one is known to be the most LGBT-friendly server. (thanks dacileva of Twitter!)

Statistics from the first 31,414 posts of this thread:

31,414 posts
10,972 unique posters
4,665 posters have posted more than once
2,795 posters have posted more than twice
1,960 posters have posted more than thrice

(6,307 posters posted once, 1,870 posters posted twice, 835 people posted 3 times, 479 people posted 4 times, 320 people posted 5 times, 227 6 times, 163 7 times, 129 8 times, 112 9 times... etc)

Three posters have posted over 100 times:

154 Adnan, Garona
159 Tumbles, Wyrmrest Accord
225 Merisioux, Kirin Tor


Most prolific realms (based on number of posts):

361 Argent Dawn
371 Proudmoore
443 Emerald Dream
446 Cenarion Circle
451 Earthen Ring
483 Kirin Tor
714 Moon Guard
1009 Wyrmrest Accord

Least prolific:

11 Garithos
12 Quel'Thalas
14 Dentarg
14 Hakkar
17 Balnazzar
20 Drakkari
23 Anub'arak
24 Blackwing Lair

Oh Garithos :(

Looking for a decent heuristics library to help determine if a post is generally positive or generally negative.

Re: The 30,000+ post's statistics

Now THIS is interesting.

I've been thinking about something -- I wonder if this is a sort of backhanded way of killing the forums and community feedback altogether without actually, ya know, doing that?

If this change goes through, the forums will be a ghost town. Suggestions, rants, raves, requests for help, feedback, bug reports etc... maybe all of these things will vanish or diminish a significant amount. I have only been playing WoW about 2 years and don't even frequent the official forums often but I have been devs get very snippy about even constructive non-qq feedback or anything that questions their design.

Blizz won't HAVE to silence us -- we'll silence ourselves.

That's one of the big theories about why. Get people to flock to non-official forums so they can cut back on forum up-keep costs.

Now, why they didn't just nix the forums completely other than Support and Bug Reports instead of this PR fiasco, I don't understand. Many companies only have that much anyway...

First I thought this was funny. Then I thought it was horrible. Then I figured I'd share it here, because the allusion's been drawn already.

THEY CAME FIRST for the battle.nets,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a user.

THEN THEY CAME for the Starcraft players,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Starcraft player.

THEN THEY CAME for the trolls,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a troll.

and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Just wrote this up as a reply to a concerned police officer who purposefully avoids giving out his real identity online at all costs, drives different car to work than he does with his family, etc...I went to reply only to find I was under a 72 hour ban for "spamming and trolling" the forums.

Spamming and trolling, really? I replied twice in the main thread and was my usual polite and respectful self (never trolled ANYONE - the thought is dreadful!) yet straightforward with my concerns. And I get slapped in the face for my trouble. Unbelievable.

Blizzard is closer to losing me as a customer than I ever thought possible. This from the girl who has plans to earn "The Insane" achievement on her rogue. I'm appalled and truly shocked at the disregard for customers' feelings about very real privacy violations.

Anyway here is my reply that'll never see the light of day on forums:

Thank you for posting this. So many people have a flippant attitude, as if harassment and stalking happens to other people, couldn't happen to them, and certainly not to you because you're not special...

Shades of grey, people. Some posters like the OP must be hyper-vigilant for their safety and that of their family. Police, military and such. Other people might have an obsessive ex (dangerous or not, I don't want my ex husband to know what server I'm on) or a boss who frowns upon gaming. (Especially WoW...the stigma associated with WoW is HUGE! And I work with gamers who give me a hard time about it!) Others just don't want to run the risk of irritating someone or having personal information looked up by some troll, even if they don't intend to omgstalk with it. Simply having fun at the expense of my real name is probably good enough for most trolls, but it's too much for me.

How do I explain to my dad if some idiot decides to wake him up at night with a harassing phone call mentioning me by name? He'd be terrified for my safety and have no idea what was going on. He doesn't use this new-fangled "internet " thingy yet his white pages information is on it nevertheless.

ALL of these things are valid reasons to be worried and upset. I just cannot understand thinking otherwise. (Just like how I can't understand why someone would want to harass li'l ol me...but someone COULD do it and it is ridiculous not to acknowledge that and just hope it doesn't happen!)

If you're a parent, do you constantly put your child at needless risk just because the odds of them being abducted are pretty low? If you maybe just run inside the house for a second? Or just let them walk a few blocks to school alone? The world is a SCARY place, which does NOT mean we should live in fear and never go out, but that we should be reasonably cautious. There is a huge difference between fear and caution! Using our real names on these forums is dangerously throwing caution to the winds.

This change is motivated by greed, pure and simple. I hope Blizzard retracts their decision so that people like the OP can continue to enjoy the forums in safety.

Gosh, I feel like one person in a group of friends who is the last to know what people are talking about.. enough break time from the computer to defrost in front of the fire I think!

As I don't really say much on the forums, it won't affect me (from what I've read, correct me if I am wrong.) but for those who I know contribute to the forum community, I can clearly see why they're annoyed. This is your personal info - we are on these games as some sort of reality safe zone or just for fun and the last thing we need to do is worry about people knowing who we really are.

I don't mind the feature ingame personally, as a few of my friends play on different realms and it's good to be able to crossrealm chat with them.. but I am only adding the people I know IRL or have known online for quite a long time.. most of these people I have on facebook anyway, so they know who I am, and I know who they are. [After thought: It's really like an inner facebooky thing.. seeing who your friends are friends with etc. If you don't like someone you know IRL and they play wow, guess who they can now find with the courtesy of your friend being able to stand them ;)]

For complete strangers to be able to see my real name is a little startling, even though google searching my name doesn't give you many hits, it does worry me a little that my name is out there to absolutely anyone who is posting on the forums regardless of whether a character name is listed or not.

Those are my very belated thoughts on the issue! :P

UK folk (and international I guess) can add to BBC 'Have Your Say' on internet anonymity here:

You will have to register and get a BBC ID, but you can register anonymously!

Here's The Instance podcast's post weighing in on this:

I'm more than a little disgusted at their list of "bad". No mention of women, LGBT people, names clearly of a disparaged race or ethnicity, police/military/security cleared people, or hiring discrimination? Really?

And the comments are even worse. Most of the women I know who play are thinking of cancelling/have cancelled. But there's a giant, huge hunk of people out there who think this is a good thing or don't care. I'm just not convinced my cancellation would mean a damn thing in the scheme of things. Am I wrong?

new blue post:
"That's quite understandable, Flanks. Privacy is very important and if you're not even slightly comfortable with revealing your real name in the forums, then I think it is perfectly understandable that you err on the side of caution and just don't post. It's a shame that some perfectly constructive and decent folk predict they will no longer be posting in our forums when we make this change. We hope though, at the very least, you will still be reading them. We've got a lot of other changes coming to the forums in terms of layout, content and the like and we hope that you will still find the forums a useful source of information."

I really can't understand why they can't see a problem with this? It's mind boggling.

For further record, I really want what they're smoking, because the world must be filled with sunshine and roses from their point of view.

Oh ffs. That's the point, that we don't feel comfortable to post is a BAD THING. URGH.

(Deleted comment)

Re: a little off-topic, but...

and blizz thinks there wont be any problems... what a load

For those of you in a petition-signing mood, [info]noelove has brought this to our attention.

I don't know if this has been posted/linked before and I can't sift through those 900+ comments right now, but there is another petition here:

I signed the one I linked in this comment already and will sign the other too just to make (even more of) a point.

1070 Signatures Total, as of now.

I don't know if an online petition will do much but it's worth a shot.

Oh and ALSO I don't know how much this image has been going around yet, I forgot where I even found it but I thought it was really awesome and thought I'd share. It's my new desktop wallpaper too. :D

Edit to fix bad link.

Edited at 2010-07-08 01:24 pm (UTC)


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